I'm turning off comments because it's getting very silly in here. My guess is that one of the weirdos who sees going all-in on Substack as a great opportunity to farm subscribers has posted about this, and their fash-adjacent acolytes are piling in to write enthusiastically stupid comments.
Thank you so much for summarising this, Josh - I'm so grateful. I know it's just well-intended ignorance, but seeing people whose writing I really value loudly declare that substack just doesn't have a nazi problem is really jarring and destabilising, and I've been feeling really let down. So pleased you're moving to ghost, and I'm so happy to take some of the money I had spent on writers who are defiantly remaining here and take it to a paid subscription to you, instead.
Thanks Josh, disturbing as hell. I am over on Ghost and it's fine, whatever - maybe quieter comments but it doesn't stink like Substack does. Hey, do you know if anyone has also done a similar mine of anti-muslim anti-arab newsletters? Cos I feel like that content will be just as prevalent, and maybe even more blatant? I like the way you've started to expose the very real and active role that Substack play in promotion; they like to say that people can maintain and build their own audience organically and that audiences decide, but it's a lottery - and one in which they actively manipulate the odds. I wish they would just be honest and stop acting like they have no control over any of this stuff. That's what drives me so wild. I also think the days of monetised newsletters are going to end pretty soon too. Just a feeling.
Thank you for wading through this appalling shite so that we don’t have too - and so that we have some facts to refer to when discussing this. I’m sure your soul/mind/spirit/humanity must feel like it needs a deep clean. I love your writing and thought provoking insights and will follow you (you’ll take me automatically). Although appalling (again) things are happening and being written about, the least I can do is be informed, bear witness, and take what action I can. When future generations ask how could these things happen, I need to be able to say that I did what I could.
Thanks for doing this Josh and I understand you leaving.
None of what you've shown me is surprising unfortunately. I've been aware that I was sharing a platform with an anti-vaccine cesspit for some years. I get recommended anti-vaccine/ Covid denial rubbish on more days that I don't get recommended that content. So far, I've stayed here for the same reason I still use Facebook, because I still believe that I'm doing some good in what I'm doing (and because there are some fantastic people I've met here).
How long that will last remains to be seen. The last couple of months have certainly seen me re-evaluating my future on this platform.
This makes me sick. I had no idea how much garbage Substack was profiting from. I was pissed off when the platform recently recommended Richard Hanania to me. Now that I see the degree to which the company is contributing to the decline of our culture, I can't justify continuing to be here.
Thanks! (I think?) I certainly wouldn't want to do a deep dig to find all this out for myself ... I guess we will one day learn if this stuff mostly snuck in under the radar, OR if people managing the site knew what was happening - it seems at the very least that once it was publicised they didn't seem surprised so much by the content they were hosting as they were by the reaction of writers and readers!?
re: "Substack’s business is built on — and, I argue, depends on — enabling horrific amounts of racism, disinformation, and hate speech." This is hard to deny even after the little bit of digging you've done here. Bloody hell. Hamish McKenzie you absolute dweeb. Nazi scum fuck off
This is horribly eye opening. I had thought (from reading Bernard's article this morning) that the issue had been blown way out of proportion, but you've convinced me otherwise. Well done on your work, and your decision.
Thank you for taking the time to express all this Josh. I have enjoyed, paid for, and likely will continue to enjoy your writing (in my in-box; assuming Ghost is not a massive chore to receive emails from). I do think it's a shame that you're leaving, ironically because of the loss of community recommendations... Based on your experience, you might disagree, but I haven't ever gone out of my way to search for shit here, so all I know of this place is hundreds of insightful and wholesome recommendations and the discovery of many new writers.
Would I have ever found writers like yourself, Emily, Ben@Memia, David Slack, Nick, and many more if not for this platform and the community recommendations? I expect not.
Would I be able to find garbage about Jews and vaccines if I spent an hour deliberately searching for it absolutely anywhere on the internet (including open-source Ghost)? I expect so.
However, I accept there's no simple answer, because if you frame it purely through the eyes of a marketer, people will consistently disappoint us by marching right over the cliff edge in search of a good deal, a shiny new thing, or someone else to blame for their ills.
That is a reality we need to contend with. But we, in my opinion, should not pay the price for that in individual sacrifice, and rather in communal vigilance. You might have found a bunch of bad Substacks, but I can say, without any doubt, there are far more innocent or objectively good ones.
Those who elect to fight us with fear and disinformation are very aware that the majority of us believe in shared good, so their only play is to divide us. Because the one thing they understand is, when there are no longer enough strong voices in the places where people go, the only 'truth' left is theirs.
"You might have found a bunch of bad Substacks, but I can say, without any doubt, there are far more innocent or objectively good ones."
With respect, Tim, you don't know that. No-one does! Except Substack, and they're not telling. My (preliminary, incomplete) research suggests that Substack's disinformation ecosystem is gargantuan, that they're happily monetizing and profiting from content that *no-one else will host,* and that this kerfuffle about tip-of-the-iceberg Nazis is desperate spinning to avoid lifting the lid on just how much shit this platform enables.
"Because the one thing they understand is, when there are no longer enough strong voices in the places where people go, the only 'truth' left is theirs."
If all the moderate voices leave Substack, you're left with 4chan; a hive of scum and villainy that will be poison to investors and audiences. Substack is ostensibly a commercial enterprise, not some edgelord's passion project, and if it loses its veneer of respectability it runs a very real risk of failing.
I appreciate the response Josh. You have your position and I'm not trying to dissuade you, and I will add I actually agree about plenty of the things you have said about the lack of a spellchecker or decent formatting options here!
However, it does make me a little sad that, in just the short time since you sold us all on A Brighter Future (back in October), you seem to have concluded that, among all the gardening, transport, history, cooking, eating, craft, building, ecology, philosophy, travel, literature, news, satire, comedy, cocktail making, technology, productivity, health, fitness, linguistics, culture, architecture, art, shopping, business, friendship, fiction, reading... there is nothing better on here to highlight, as you depart this community, than a selective handful of vitriol.
I do hope you rediscover that Brighter Future optimism, floating in the isolated expanse of Ghost, and share it with those of us who find you there. The last year has been rough, and I also found I had to pen a hard-reset in my own writing not so long ago, so I completely empathise at how this stuff has worn us all down. But, for now, I still believe we built this community for good; and I believe there remains more power here to advance that optimism than in the myriad scattered alternatives.
The horrors are breathtaking. Phew. We’re sunk. My Ivy League educated (undergrad Yale, grad Harvard) brother Patrick when I first joined Substack, I asked him what subscriptions he liked on Substack. He recommended a “News of the Day” Persuasion Substack. So I tried it and immediately some pastey white boy in London was writing a take down of Charles Below, NYTs, OpEd where Charles rightly identified anti-Black racism as the root cause of whatever the issue they were discussing. And this white London boy was attacking Charles- discrediting him, undermining him, dismissing him, calling for him to be fired. It’s what MLK talked about, not fearing the Klanners as much as white moderates.
Lauren Hough in her attack on SAN she posted a “There are no Nazis on Substack” link to some dweeby white boy in Paris who gives walking tours of Paris. Because admiring the spoils of colonialism and racist oppression via fancy Rues in Paris is head in the sand legit. My first husband is German and he always said the English and French were just as antisemitic as the Germans- they just weren’t as overt.
Do you know what happens to ppl (me) who *only* read on the app? Will your posts start again as emails? The main reason I like substack is that it keeps subscriptions _out_ of my inbox. Totes support you leaving though.
I'm turning off comments because it's getting very silly in here. My guess is that one of the weirdos who sees going all-in on Substack as a great opportunity to farm subscribers has posted about this, and their fash-adjacent acolytes are piling in to write enthusiastically stupid comments.
Fucking hell.
I know right. We gonna have to go. It was fun while it lasted. Shame as I liked it here. Until now 😞
Thank you so much for summarising this, Josh - I'm so grateful. I know it's just well-intended ignorance, but seeing people whose writing I really value loudly declare that substack just doesn't have a nazi problem is really jarring and destabilising, and I've been feeling really let down. So pleased you're moving to ghost, and I'm so happy to take some of the money I had spent on writers who are defiantly remaining here and take it to a paid subscription to you, instead.
Jesus. This is devastating.
if you like cherry picking it is.
it's cherry picked bc i dont like it! 👍
Thanks Josh, disturbing as hell. I am over on Ghost and it's fine, whatever - maybe quieter comments but it doesn't stink like Substack does. Hey, do you know if anyone has also done a similar mine of anti-muslim anti-arab newsletters? Cos I feel like that content will be just as prevalent, and maybe even more blatant? I like the way you've started to expose the very real and active role that Substack play in promotion; they like to say that people can maintain and build their own audience organically and that audiences decide, but it's a lottery - and one in which they actively manipulate the odds. I wish they would just be honest and stop acting like they have no control over any of this stuff. That's what drives me so wild. I also think the days of monetised newsletters are going to end pretty soon too. Just a feeling.
Truly sickening content. What a terrible waste of a good platform.
Thank you for wading through this appalling shite so that we don’t have too - and so that we have some facts to refer to when discussing this. I’m sure your soul/mind/spirit/humanity must feel like it needs a deep clean. I love your writing and thought provoking insights and will follow you (you’ll take me automatically). Although appalling (again) things are happening and being written about, the least I can do is be informed, bear witness, and take what action I can. When future generations ask how could these things happen, I need to be able to say that I did what I could.
Thanks for doing this Josh and I understand you leaving.
None of what you've shown me is surprising unfortunately. I've been aware that I was sharing a platform with an anti-vaccine cesspit for some years. I get recommended anti-vaccine/ Covid denial rubbish on more days that I don't get recommended that content. So far, I've stayed here for the same reason I still use Facebook, because I still believe that I'm doing some good in what I'm doing (and because there are some fantastic people I've met here).
How long that will last remains to be seen. The last couple of months have certainly seen me re-evaluating my future on this platform.
This makes me sick. I had no idea how much garbage Substack was profiting from. I was pissed off when the platform recently recommended Richard Hanania to me. Now that I see the degree to which the company is contributing to the decline of our culture, I can't justify continuing to be here.
Thanks! (I think?) I certainly wouldn't want to do a deep dig to find all this out for myself ... I guess we will one day learn if this stuff mostly snuck in under the radar, OR if people managing the site knew what was happening - it seems at the very least that once it was publicised they didn't seem surprised so much by the content they were hosting as they were by the reaction of writers and readers!?
See you over on Ghost, Josh!
re: "Substack’s business is built on — and, I argue, depends on — enabling horrific amounts of racism, disinformation, and hate speech." This is hard to deny even after the little bit of digging you've done here. Bloody hell. Hamish McKenzie you absolute dweeb. Nazi scum fuck off
This is horribly eye opening. I had thought (from reading Bernard's article this morning) that the issue had been blown way out of proportion, but you've convinced me otherwise. Well done on your work, and your decision.
I'm sad that Substack turned out to be a piece of shit though
Thank you, Josh.
It seems I'm going to have to re-evaluate my participation of Substsack. The moment you mentioned Glinner, it pretty well under-scored your point.
Thank you for taking the time to express all this Josh. I have enjoyed, paid for, and likely will continue to enjoy your writing (in my in-box; assuming Ghost is not a massive chore to receive emails from). I do think it's a shame that you're leaving, ironically because of the loss of community recommendations... Based on your experience, you might disagree, but I haven't ever gone out of my way to search for shit here, so all I know of this place is hundreds of insightful and wholesome recommendations and the discovery of many new writers.
Would I have ever found writers like yourself, Emily, Ben@Memia, David Slack, Nick, and many more if not for this platform and the community recommendations? I expect not.
Would I be able to find garbage about Jews and vaccines if I spent an hour deliberately searching for it absolutely anywhere on the internet (including open-source Ghost)? I expect so.
However, I accept there's no simple answer, because if you frame it purely through the eyes of a marketer, people will consistently disappoint us by marching right over the cliff edge in search of a good deal, a shiny new thing, or someone else to blame for their ills.
That is a reality we need to contend with. But we, in my opinion, should not pay the price for that in individual sacrifice, and rather in communal vigilance. You might have found a bunch of bad Substacks, but I can say, without any doubt, there are far more innocent or objectively good ones.
Those who elect to fight us with fear and disinformation are very aware that the majority of us believe in shared good, so their only play is to divide us. Because the one thing they understand is, when there are no longer enough strong voices in the places where people go, the only 'truth' left is theirs.
"You might have found a bunch of bad Substacks, but I can say, without any doubt, there are far more innocent or objectively good ones."
With respect, Tim, you don't know that. No-one does! Except Substack, and they're not telling. My (preliminary, incomplete) research suggests that Substack's disinformation ecosystem is gargantuan, that they're happily monetizing and profiting from content that *no-one else will host,* and that this kerfuffle about tip-of-the-iceberg Nazis is desperate spinning to avoid lifting the lid on just how much shit this platform enables.
"Because the one thing they understand is, when there are no longer enough strong voices in the places where people go, the only 'truth' left is theirs."
If all the moderate voices leave Substack, you're left with 4chan; a hive of scum and villainy that will be poison to investors and audiences. Substack is ostensibly a commercial enterprise, not some edgelord's passion project, and if it loses its veneer of respectability it runs a very real risk of failing.
I appreciate the response Josh. You have your position and I'm not trying to dissuade you, and I will add I actually agree about plenty of the things you have said about the lack of a spellchecker or decent formatting options here!
However, it does make me a little sad that, in just the short time since you sold us all on A Brighter Future (back in October), you seem to have concluded that, among all the gardening, transport, history, cooking, eating, craft, building, ecology, philosophy, travel, literature, news, satire, comedy, cocktail making, technology, productivity, health, fitness, linguistics, culture, architecture, art, shopping, business, friendship, fiction, reading... there is nothing better on here to highlight, as you depart this community, than a selective handful of vitriol.
I do hope you rediscover that Brighter Future optimism, floating in the isolated expanse of Ghost, and share it with those of us who find you there. The last year has been rough, and I also found I had to pen a hard-reset in my own writing not so long ago, so I completely empathise at how this stuff has worn us all down. But, for now, I still believe we built this community for good; and I believe there remains more power here to advance that optimism than in the myriad scattered alternatives.
The horrors are breathtaking. Phew. We’re sunk. My Ivy League educated (undergrad Yale, grad Harvard) brother Patrick when I first joined Substack, I asked him what subscriptions he liked on Substack. He recommended a “News of the Day” Persuasion Substack. So I tried it and immediately some pastey white boy in London was writing a take down of Charles Below, NYTs, OpEd where Charles rightly identified anti-Black racism as the root cause of whatever the issue they were discussing. And this white London boy was attacking Charles- discrediting him, undermining him, dismissing him, calling for him to be fired. It’s what MLK talked about, not fearing the Klanners as much as white moderates.
Lauren Hough in her attack on SAN she posted a “There are no Nazis on Substack” link to some dweeby white boy in Paris who gives walking tours of Paris. Because admiring the spoils of colonialism and racist oppression via fancy Rues in Paris is head in the sand legit. My first husband is German and he always said the English and French were just as antisemitic as the Germans- they just weren’t as overt.
https://open.substack.com/pub/ifnotparis/p/i-too-have-a-nazi-problem?r=2u02w&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
This the average racist whyte boi in Paris claiming Nazis are not Nazis
Do you know what happens to ppl (me) who *only* read on the app? Will your posts start again as emails? The main reason I like substack is that it keeps subscriptions _out_ of my inbox. Totes support you leaving though.
They'll be emails. But there'll still be a website where you can find my stuff - in fact, it's up now: https://badnewsletter.ghost.io/
Thank you!